Ever since a few details about how guilds will work in Guild Wars 2 slipped into the media stream last month, the topic continues to cause a bit of a buzz among gamers. A lot of great points have come up in many of the discussions I’ve been following on the subject, though most also contain a hefty dose of speculation since the guild system hasn’t been officially unveiled in its entirety as of yet.
It’s also worth noting that, given ArenaNet’s iterative approach to development for GW2, things we consider to be gameplay fact today could very likely change again by next month or the month after. Just look at the attribute system, the necromancer’s Death Shroud mechanics, or even the core Hero panel UI layout to name a few cases where we’ve seen vast changes since those systems were first made public.
That in mind, this article is actually heavily inspired by a post at Hunter’s Insight titled “Love and Hate in Guild Wars 2”. In fact, I had originally sat down to write up a shorter news post for the article, but as I began writing I realized I had a lot more to add to the discussion than I’d originally anticipated. But before I go any further, I would thoroughly encourage you to head over to Hunter’s Insight to get a base understanding of how the guild system in Guild Wars 2 is compared to social networks, like Facebook, in that particular article.
Back already? Great – let’s get started then.
Unlike the inspiration for this article, I’ve seen David Fincher’s The Social Network and will also be using it as a point of reference here, albeit in a slightly different way. I should also warn you that I’ll be straying a bit off the beaten path here by citing a number of non-gaming concepts that have led to important innovations before looping back around to explain how they factor into guilds in Guild Wars 2.
While I’m a fan of some of Fincher’s films, The Social Network is not one that I’d really paid much attention to when it was first announced. However, having been a Nine Inch Nails fan for as long as that band has existed, I was keenly interested in seeing how the excellent soundtrack – created by NIN’s Trent Reznor and How to Destroy Angels band mate Atticus Ross – came across once set to Fincher’s visual style.
So even though I tend to consider Facebook to be the biggest white noise generator in existence today, The Social Network still appealed to me as a massive NIN fan. The soundtrack itself truly sets the tone for the entire film; so much so that I’d have the same emotive reactions if you muted the dialog and let the soundtrack stand in as narrator.
Musically, the soundtrack harkens back to the all instrumental NIN album, Ghosts. At this point I realize I’m straying pretty far into left field and you may be wondering “what does NIN have to do with GW2’s guild system?” Allow me to explain.
Trent Reznor has always been somewhat of an innovator in the music space, but it wasn’t until the release of Ghosts that he became recognized as such in a marketing sense. As you can see below, he opted to release Ghosts in a very nontraditional way, providing a tiered payment structure that offers everything from a free download of the first 9 tracks, to an ultra-deluxe limited edition package for the super hardcore fans.
By providing a number of purchase options, Reznor allowed fans to choose their level of commitment to the project, and even gave them the option to sample the first volume of Ghosts for free. ‘Options’ is a key word here, and one that we’ll be referring back to as I weave things back into the realm of GW2.
While there are a lot of other supporting details surrounding the release of Ghosts that are somewhat fascinating even for non-fans, to help drive the point home about its impact on how we conduct online transactions I’ll give you two examples here.
The first is the Kickstarter website. Founded in 2009 (nearly a full year after the release of Ghosts), Kickstarter is an online platform for funding creative projects that uses a “threshold pledge system”. While Reznor isn’t officially cited as an inspiration for Kickstarter, I can see the immediate influence of the Ghosts order options in Kickstarter’s pledge system. Again, you are presented with a list of options for how much you would like to pledge to a project which is commonly bundled with various physical product packages should the project meet its funding goals.
Fast forward to June of that same year, and you’ll find our second example – one which is much closer to home for MMO gamers. That month Turbine announced the new free-to-play business model for Dungeons and Dragons Online, and helped establish a tiered payment structure as a legitimate means of allowing fans to become engaged with a title based on how much money they are willing to invest.
This has had a rippling effect to the point where more and more triple-A MMOs that originally launched as a subscription service have adopted the same free-to-play conversion model. In fact, just this week SOE announced that DC Universe Online would be the latest title to make this conversion, less than a year after its original launch.
Applying this Methodology to Guilds in Guild Wars 2
There are two key ways that I can see the influence of this methodology in the limited details we have so far about the guild system in Guild Wars 2. The first and perhaps most important, comes down to that word I mentioned earlier: options.
In GW1 you have severely limited options when it comes to joining guilds. If you choose to join one, it will link your entire account to that guild. Your only recourse if you’d like to create alt characters outside of that guild is to purchase another copy of the game to create a wholly separate account. This even extends to your in-game friend’s list where you might ‘friend’ someone on one character, only to have each of the characters you create on that same account associated with that exact same friends list.
So in essence, you are given few to no real options for how you want to engage other players in terms of social groups in the original game. You can either opt to join one guild and add people to your friends list on an account-wide basis, or you don’t. There is no in between.
The other key factor here is level of involvement.
As any MMO gamer will tell you, most organized guilds tend to have nutty requirements for participation be it raid attendance, or even showing up for X number of scheduled PvP matches per week. Yet many gamers enjoy guilds primarily as a means of connecting socially with other, like-minded gamers. Others might form small cliques within their larger guild, and that’s who they primarily group with for social gameplay systems such as dungeons or PvP. Still others enjoy guilds for the ability to step into a leadership position and manage day to day activities within the guild. Just look at Dragons from The Syndicate for a shining example of the latter when taken to an extreme.
From what we know of the guild system in Guild Wars 2, it will neatly incorporate both of these key elements in ways previously not seen in an MMO. Much like Trent Reznor with the release of Ghosts, it will provide players options based on their level of involvement. It allows you to engage other players on a social level based on shared interests within the game, but never to the point where it becomes an all or nothing decision to do so.
Using myself as a test case here, I can easily foresee how it would be beneficial to officially belong to a number of organized groups within GW2:
- One group for competitive PvP
- One group for the other editors on my network so we can opt to experience the game together
- One group for the community here on NecroBator
- Yet another group of longtime gamer friends who will be migrating to GW2 from other titles
There are possibly even more social groups that I could foresee wanting to be a part of within Guild Wars 2. The beauty of the guild system – if it is indeed what we expect it will be – is that I don’t need to create a fleet of alts, or deal with juggling multiple accounts just to have the option to interact with each of those groups based on the level of involvement I choose for each. On Monday I can dive into some tournament matches, Tuesday I can play with my coworkers, Wednesday I can scamper around and explore the map with a few close friends, and Thursday I can organize a massive NecroBator convergence on the world PvP map.
When discussing this system with various people, one major concern that’s been expressed time and again is that such a system would effectively splinter a game community rather than solidify it. I personally do not see how that will be the case, and in fact feel that quite the opposite will happen. Let’s use the same potential social groups I listed above as an example here.
- I might discover that a coworker is equally interested in competitive PvP, and introduce them to that group
- Some of my gamer friends may decide to roll a necro and want to join us when NecroBator converges on the world PvP map to make the other shards tremble in fear of our mighty necro army
- My competitive PvP team may want to counterbalance tournament play with some PvE adventuring, so I can have them join me and my friends in some explorable dungeon runs
And the list could easily go on. The point here is that, unlike traditional guilds that lock you to a single social group, the proposed system in Guild Wars 2 accounts for the kind of crosspollination described above. So instead of a fractured server community built around the notion that you join one group to the exclusivity of all others, suddenly you have a scenario where the entire server can ultimately be looked at as one massive social group that you can interact with on a much deeper level than traditional MMO guilds allow.
Mind you, all of this is simply more speculation added to the larger discussion until official details are announced. But given the other aspects of gameplay where ArenaNet has proven to be a true innovator so far, I personally believe that making a guild system that provides options and factors in level of involvement will yield some incredibly positive results.
Loading ...
Nice article, as usual. In my opinion, choice, and a system that is flexible enough to support it, is always a good place to start. I could see guilds behaving similarly to cirlces in Google+, as a way of organizing and sorting your friends. One group could have all your casual play buddies, while another may have your stringent, serious, ridiculous rule imposing, hard-core guild members. And you would treat both quite differently. No reason I can’t be in both, if I so choose. The idea of belonging to multiple guilds could potentially be seen by some of the more hardcore as heresy, for traitors with no allegiance, but I support anything that gives me choice, or at least the illusion thereof
Guilds and guild structures is a highly “messy” subject. Guilds require a purpose, and whatever that purpose is, is the reason a guild exists. Being able to belong to multiple guilds at once, in a way, defeats those purposes. I can imagine that elitist guilds will be highly selective, whereas the more social network guilds will be vast and many.
Imagine that you come home from work and you want to play a little bit of GW2. You have a busy schedule, so you can really only afford a couple hours a night (at best). So you log on, play the type of gameplay you most enjoy (pvp, pve, rp, glorified AIM, etc). Logic dictates that unless you’re into the whole “glorified AIM” thing, you will probably only belong to one or two guilds at most.
If all I do is PvP, odds are I’m in a pvp guild. When I come home and log on, I will be in that guild’s chat channel seeking any sort of pvp action to relax after my day of work. If nothing is going on, I’ll just join PUG pvp gameplay. Similar things can be said about pve.
So, as you can tell, at this time I am not to sure about Arenanet’s current idea on guilds. However, being able to belong to multiple guilds at one time will be good for launch and any new player to really dabble with the game. After all, GW2 is like something we have never seen before… RAW AWSUMENESS!
Hmm, I think you’ll actually find that instead of ‘defeating those purposes’ there will actually be guilds that refine their purposes more.
Like with your PvP guild example, you mentioned how you might log in and there could be nothing going on. This could be because some of those people don’t feel up to PvP that moment and just want to socialize or whatever. Well in this system there could be PvP guilds which are not meant for any sort of socializing, guilds where if you represent them you are outright stating your intention to go out into PvP.
In a single guild system you might not always find people up to PvP right then, but in a multiple guild system you will know that every time you log into that PvP specific guild, everyone there is taking part in PvP or planning to. In fact this sort of thing is what happened in FFXI with their multiple guild system, guilds didn’t need to be a sort of ‘focus on this but catch all’ thing, they are ‘focus on this and only this’
Right, but this is the same thing as shouting over gen chat “Skilled Necro lfg for pvp, pst!” Also, with GW2 being about “bring the player not the role,” being strict about who you want to play with will be a lot easier. I think what I’m trying to get at is that there is no real need for guilds other than credibility (to show off how bamf you may or may not be) or representation (this is MY guild, not yours). Anything else and it’s just a chat box.
I would like to add that it will be rather interesting to see how it unfolds years after release! In many ways I am more curious to see how it correlates with human socialization in general. For example, in school you will have your little group of close friends, but you will also socialize with a few that are outside your circle. This happens in many different segments of one’s life, but it’s easier to say school based on the fact that everyone does their best to point out social differences.
Quote: Right, but this is the same thing as shouting over gen chat “Skilled Necro lfg for pvp, pst!”
Hrm, no not really. A completely PvP focused GW2 guild could (and likely will) be more than just a pug group, and you get with the people pretty much instantly instead of having to wait for a response on gen chat. You’ll also get to know the people you fight with there.
I don’t think it fits to equate a PvP focused guild in GW2 with random people on gen chat. Heck you’ll log into that PvP guild with them asking you to join up with them cause you are a skilled Necro and they know you are up for PvP since you are there.
If anything, multiple guilds allows you to have your ‘chat room/social’ guild here and then pick up heavily focused guilds for your other needs, focused guilds that don’t need to worry about anything else other than what they are aimed for.
It isn’t just making a bunch of extra chat rooms or anything of the sort, it actually allows guilds to define themselves more strongly. The need for guilds is not just credibility or representation, it is also for achieving the same goals.
Nice article and well written as always. I do love options and I am looking forward to experience the multiple guild system. Definitely planning to be part of the Necrobator guild with my main
W v W v W players shall regularly fear the hordes of undeads we will unleash together ;D
Great read… i dont think i will hate or love the system till i get my hands on it and can really figure out all the good the bad and the ugly.
Nice article as always and a nice conversation going on as well. I personally like how the guild system works at the moment. In gw1 I would like to try some GvG but I don’t want to leave my guild that doesn’t do GvG. Being able to join several guilds would solve the problem a bit like several necromancers suddenly turning up and killing everyone solves a fight.
Exactly, If I want to do something out of the mold my guild does, I will be able to do it more easily in GW2 than in GW1 because I am not limited to just one guild.
Also, I don’t think it will get out of control with people being in 100+ guilds all the time because there really isn’t 100+ different kinds of things to do that aren’t already in the mold of one of the other guilds you’re in.
I am looking forward to this open guild system and the option to maintain connections with different social groups. All the options and possibilities is what I personally like the most about GW2. It seems to me that the game is full of options to play exactly they way I like, ranging from the story system, armor options, roles in combat to guilds and more.
.
I love the talk about other shards trembling in fear or our mighty necro army
As a person who’s been caught in the middle of 2 or 3 guilds before I’m going to love this system. I think the part that really grabbed me is when they said you can just go guild less if you like, there are just some days where I want to sign on and complete a goal and sign out. Its a system that caters to you connecting to a bunch of people but it also lets you be anti social if you feel inclined to keep to yourself on sometime.
An interesting and insightful article, and an enjoyable read. I thought the key points of “options” and “level of investment” in the article were particularly well made, and very applicable to the multiple guild system of GW2 as far as the details on it we have so far.
Not everyone who plays MMOs is narrowly focused on only one aspect of a game, in fact, I would hazard a guess that the exact opposite is closer to the truth. I personally have a number of different areas of gaming that interest me very much (fortunately, I have the time to pursue them all) and I suspect the vast majority of players have at least more than one.
This guild system simply acknowledges that most players are diverse and complicated critters, and makes an honest attempt at accomodating that fact.
Will it be that easy to make perfect little social circles like “necrobator guild”, “friends from old games guild” etc? Because that would assume everyone is on the same server wouldn’t it?
Well, if it is like GW1 then people will be able to switch ‘servers/channels’ so they might not have to be on the same server specifically.
That is however a good point to bring up and I’ve thought about it some before, I wonder if there will be anything built in to deal with people being on different servers but representing the same guild. This may cause issues and I’m not sure how viable it would be for guild chat to show for everyone no matter where they are. Not to mention the consideration that people from the same guild could be on opposing WvWvW servers.
There may very well be an issue where such a guild wouldn’t work too well because all the members are in different places and still can’t use guild chat to speak to each other. Perhaps we will find out when they eventually release more info about the guilds.
For a major release like Guild Wars 2, coordinating server selection is one of the things I’d be discussing with people from each of those groups listed in the article as soon as those details are announced. You have to keep in mind that I’ve been working in games media (MMOs specifically) for over 4 years now, and have been an MMO player for much longer than that. So the people in my various social circles most likely to play GW2 are used to that part of the process. For that game in particular, I’m sure I’ve made it abundantly clear by now that I’m already highly invested in GW2 and we don’t even have a confirmed release date window yet.
You do bring up a good point, however, as it’s not always as easy to coordinate getting people on the same server as it sounds on paper. While you’ll likely be able to have characters on more than one server, most people tend to stick to a specific one. Server transfers can also help when available, but given how the World v. World PvP sounds as though it will help inspire loyalty to a specific server it’s hard to say how much that kind of thing would be utilized. Then again, if specific servers quickly become known as dominant in that part of the game, I also won’t be too terribly surprised if they become popular for creating new characters.
Nightmare.
“You can either opt to join one guild and add people to your friends list on an account-wide basis, or you don’t. There is no in between.”
There is a lot of in between.
Not only is there the alliance with whom I do most of my adventuring.
But there is a party system where you can find like minded at the specific location that you want to do something.
PS the Chat is across servers.
PPS Also I think that since the Account is server based, you will not be able to join WvWvW with a guild (that you are a member of) that belongs to another server. Thus you won’t be able to fight for two servers in the same server war.